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	<title>Comments for Shooting Wide Open</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog</link>
	<description>a gawker learns</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:52:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on What people really want: film vs digital, longform vs shortform by O</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/26/what-people-really-want-film-vs-digital-longform-vs-shortform/comment-page-1/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11263#comment-730</guid>
		<description>&quot;What these people don’t realize is that a tweet about the morning coffee is not really significant for its content. It’s the act that is the key – people are reaching out for a social connection, and as long as humans have this urge, social media will thrive&quot;

I disagree with your reasoning about people reaching out for social connection. Many people post tweets, instagram images, facebook status&#039; of their morning coffee or other mundane daily rituals because they want to feel a semblance of accomplishment of doing something, anything. Subsequently, they desire, even demand that it be recognized by their peers, in the form of retweets, reblogs, diggs, likes, etc. It&#039;s like the kid who receives a trophy for JUST showing up to the game, instead of trying to compete, win, and earn that trophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What these people don’t realize is that a tweet about the morning coffee is not really significant for its content. It’s the act that is the key – people are reaching out for a social connection, and as long as humans have this urge, social media will thrive&#8221;</p>
<p>I disagree with your reasoning about people reaching out for social connection. Many people post tweets, instagram images, facebook status&#8217; of their morning coffee or other mundane daily rituals because they want to feel a semblance of accomplishment of doing something, anything. Subsequently, they desire, even demand that it be recognized by their peers, in the form of retweets, reblogs, diggs, likes, etc. It&#8217;s like the kid who receives a trophy for JUST showing up to the game, instead of trying to compete, win, and earn that trophy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What people really want: film vs digital, longform vs shortform by loci</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/26/what-people-really-want-film-vs-digital-longform-vs-shortform/comment-page-1/#comment-729</link>
		<dc:creator>loci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11263#comment-729</guid>
		<description>I did read it all, hence the joke.

&quot;We are not getting stupider because we’re tweeting up a storm&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did read it all, hence the joke.</p>
<p>&#8220;We are not getting stupider because we’re tweeting up a storm&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on What people really want: film vs digital, longform vs shortform by The Digest – Sunday, January 29th, 2012 &#124; LPV Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/26/what-people-really-want-film-vs-digital-longform-vs-shortform/comment-page-1/#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>The Digest – Sunday, January 29th, 2012 &#124; LPV Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11263#comment-722</guid>
		<description>[...] ranting about social media. But they often miss the point of both. Jin Zhu doesn&#8217;t though. In her post, she articulates why we&#8217;re so drawn to social media tools like Twitter.  What these people don’t realize is that a tweet about the morning coffee is not really [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ranting about social media. But they often miss the point of both. Jin Zhu doesn&#8217;t though. In her post, she articulates why we&#8217;re so drawn to social media tools like Twitter.  What these people don’t realize is that a tweet about the morning coffee is not really [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on What people really want: film vs digital, longform vs shortform by Jin</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/26/what-people-really-want-film-vs-digital-longform-vs-shortform/comment-page-1/#comment-716</link>
		<dc:creator>Jin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11263#comment-716</guid>
		<description>Well then that comment was a great use of your time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then that comment was a great use of your time!</p>
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		<title>Comment on What people really want: film vs digital, longform vs shortform by loci</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/26/what-people-really-want-film-vs-digital-longform-vs-shortform/comment-page-1/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>loci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 01:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11263#comment-709</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not reading all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not reading all that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pay to publish by Jin</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/20/pay-to-publish/comment-page-1/#comment-706</link>
		<dc:creator>Jin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11166#comment-706</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right that it all depends on where you want to put your money, but I guess the problem with these sort of &quot;exposure&quot; schemes is that what you think you&#039;re getting may not actually be what you are getting.

Say you want to have an art career. You pay for art school. This very obviously contributes to your ability to have a career in the arts. (Though I have to say the recent hulabaloo about The Art Institutes has a similar stink.) Or you want to network with art world professionals. So you pay the entry fee to portfolio reviews. In all these cases, you get pretty much what you&#039;ve paid for.

However, with something like this, it&#039;s less clear that the exposure you are getting is the kind of exposure that you want. Are art or photo world professionals really going to seriously consider this project? Are gallerists? I mean, maybe. Maybe they will, but what makes it scammy is that you could probably find exposure that reaches the right audience for free if you just put in the work.

Can you even put something like that on your resume? If anyone looks it up, they can see that you&#039;ve simply paid for inclusion rather than being chosen for the quality of your work. That&#039;s not exactly a prelude to being represented or hired. When you pay for art school or a review, it&#039;s paying to get in the door. Whether you get shown or find work is a whole other thing that no one guarantees. But with this, you are directly paying to be included.

But who knows. It&#039;s not that much money in the long run and if people want to do it, why not. I just wonder how realistic they&#039;re actually being about their expectations. It&#039;s all just a balance of cost and benefit. I mean, shoot, if I&#039;d found out about it when it was still in the $1 range, I&#039;d probably have done it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right that it all depends on where you want to put your money, but I guess the problem with these sort of &#8220;exposure&#8221; schemes is that what you think you&#8217;re getting may not actually be what you are getting.</p>
<p>Say you want to have an art career. You pay for art school. This very obviously contributes to your ability to have a career in the arts. (Though I have to say the recent hulabaloo about The Art Institutes has a similar stink.) Or you want to network with art world professionals. So you pay the entry fee to portfolio reviews. In all these cases, you get pretty much what you&#8217;ve paid for.</p>
<p>However, with something like this, it&#8217;s less clear that the exposure you are getting is the kind of exposure that you want. Are art or photo world professionals really going to seriously consider this project? Are gallerists? I mean, maybe. Maybe they will, but what makes it scammy is that you could probably find exposure that reaches the right audience for free if you just put in the work.</p>
<p>Can you even put something like that on your resume? If anyone looks it up, they can see that you&#8217;ve simply paid for inclusion rather than being chosen for the quality of your work. That&#8217;s not exactly a prelude to being represented or hired. When you pay for art school or a review, it&#8217;s paying to get in the door. Whether you get shown or find work is a whole other thing that no one guarantees. But with this, you are directly paying to be included.</p>
<p>But who knows. It&#8217;s not that much money in the long run and if people want to do it, why not. I just wonder how realistic they&#8217;re actually being about their expectations. It&#8217;s all just a balance of cost and benefit. I mean, shoot, if I&#8217;d found out about it when it was still in the $1 range, I&#8217;d probably have done it!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pay to publish by ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/20/pay-to-publish/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11166#comment-699</guid>
		<description>We always have to pay to play. This is just a simplified, money-obvious way in which you are paying. I see &quot;shows&quot; around SF that ask for photos plus some cash to have &quot;professionals&quot; curate and cut the submission cruft. And then sometimes we pay in drinks or access to our personal property, friends or body to curry favors with those who help push our career. Talent matters, but so does hustling.

The question isn&#039;t &quot;is pay to play right?&quot; The question is, &quot;is paying for this right for me?&quot; For this particular project, you have to ask what paying to be in this book does for you. Undoubtedly, there may be a lot of less-than-stellar photo work. But does this book get you on shelves of places you couldn&#039;t get in to without building up a solid reputation?

My opinion is that this is a novelty, like the million dollar website. If you&#039;re going to do it, do it now. Because the 2nd edition will most likely get ignored. If I&#039;m an unknown, I think this is a great opportunity to get seen. I&#039;ve paid to play for things with much less opportunity. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We always have to pay to play. This is just a simplified, money-obvious way in which you are paying. I see &#8220;shows&#8221; around SF that ask for photos plus some cash to have &#8220;professionals&#8221; curate and cut the submission cruft. And then sometimes we pay in drinks or access to our personal property, friends or body to curry favors with those who help push our career. Talent matters, but so does hustling.</p>
<p>The question isn&#8217;t &#8220;is pay to play right?&#8221; The question is, &#8220;is paying for this right for me?&#8221; For this particular project, you have to ask what paying to be in this book does for you. Undoubtedly, there may be a lot of less-than-stellar photo work. But does this book get you on shelves of places you couldn&#8217;t get in to without building up a solid reputation?</p>
<p>My opinion is that this is a novelty, like the million dollar website. If you&#8217;re going to do it, do it now. Because the 2nd edition will most likely get ignored. If I&#8217;m an unknown, I think this is a great opportunity to get seen. I&#8217;ve paid to play for things with much less opportunity. :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Environmental work, conscience by Jin</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/11/environmental-work-conscience/comment-page-1/#comment-682</link>
		<dc:creator>Jin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11151#comment-682</guid>
		<description>Hi Noah, as much as I believe in the powers of a fully resolved, photo, I don&#039;t think we can go so far as to say it&#039;s a substitute for being there - on a farm, in a cave, in a war zone, etc. I can&#039;t imagine that anyone would say that there&#039;s no point in visiting the Grand Canyon because you&#039;ve already seen photos of it. There&#039;s still a reason photos function partly to attract visitors to the actual location, right?

I think it&#039;s also particularly important in cases where there are potential public health issues. Looking at pipelines and derricks and wastewater pools makes the residue look like an eyesore, but if you&#039;re there and you get an instant headache from the fumes within minutes, that gives you a completely different outlook on the issue. There&#039;s the argument that sort of thing could be conveyed by writing, but personally I find text less persuasive than the actual smell of the place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Noah, as much as I believe in the powers of a fully resolved, photo, I don&#8217;t think we can go so far as to say it&#8217;s a substitute for being there &#8211; on a farm, in a cave, in a war zone, etc. I can&#8217;t imagine that anyone would say that there&#8217;s no point in visiting the Grand Canyon because you&#8217;ve already seen photos of it. There&#8217;s still a reason photos function partly to attract visitors to the actual location, right?</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s also particularly important in cases where there are potential public health issues. Looking at pipelines and derricks and wastewater pools makes the residue look like an eyesore, but if you&#8217;re there and you get an instant headache from the fumes within minutes, that gives you a completely different outlook on the issue. There&#8217;s the argument that sort of thing could be conveyed by writing, but personally I find text less persuasive than the actual smell of the place.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Environmental work, conscience by Noah Beil</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2012/01/11/environmental-work-conscience/comment-page-1/#comment-681</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah Beil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 22:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=11151#comment-681</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see a need to include other sensory stimuli along with prints in exhibitions. Shouldn&#039;t a fully resolved photograph contain the formal and narrative elements necessary to convey the artist&#039;s vision?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see a need to include other sensory stimuli along with prints in exhibitions. Shouldn&#8217;t a fully resolved photograph contain the formal and narrative elements necessary to convey the artist&#8217;s vision?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Subsidizing art, subsidizing yourself by Jin</title>
		<link>http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/2011/11/14/college/comment-page-1/#comment-615</link>
		<dc:creator>Jin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killeryellow.com/blog/?p=10828#comment-615</guid>
		<description>I agree that it&#039;s foolish, but that&#039;s never stopped anyone from doing anything before. To say that we know why all artists go into artmaking as a career is like saying we know why all cops become cops. I&#039;m not sure we can making a sweeping statement. I will say that I do think artists who do stay in the field for years and years are not motivated by money, but I&#039;m sure any number of 18 yr olds go into art thinking they are going to be the next great thing, just as any number of 18 year olds get into computer programming or business thinking they&#039;ll be the next great thing.

What frustrates me about both articles is that they blow a bad piece of data out of proportion without context and then make sweeping generalizations from that. Both of them. My point is that the number of people graduating with an arts degree doesn&#039;t tell us much about how dedicated they actually are to making art or why they do it.

But then again, we never really know why people do it do we? There are public reasons and there are private reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that it&#8217;s foolish, but that&#8217;s never stopped anyone from doing anything before. To say that we know why all artists go into artmaking as a career is like saying we know why all cops become cops. I&#8217;m not sure we can making a sweeping statement. I will say that I do think artists who do stay in the field for years and years are not motivated by money, but I&#8217;m sure any number of 18 yr olds go into art thinking they are going to be the next great thing, just as any number of 18 year olds get into computer programming or business thinking they&#8217;ll be the next great thing.</p>
<p>What frustrates me about both articles is that they blow a bad piece of data out of proportion without context and then make sweeping generalizations from that. Both of them. My point is that the number of people graduating with an arts degree doesn&#8217;t tell us much about how dedicated they actually are to making art or why they do it.</p>
<p>But then again, we never really know why people do it do we? There are public reasons and there are private reasons.</p>
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